What would you buy?

Discuss strategies of warbarons

What would you buy?

Postby tabanli » Fri May 31, 2013 11:13 pm

One on one game, large map with a few mountains at the center, some rivers and occasional ridges. Starting position is fixed at opposite corners. Your initial troop consist of one strong unit, (element,gryphon,spider) and 3 one turn unit (elf, scout, crow). Neutrals are +5 cities with a random two turn defenders. You start with 4000 gold !!!! (and so does your opponent).

Question: What would you train at your capital?

I think the answer to that question may reveal the best value unit overall. When there is no time urgency and you have plenty of resources what would you buy?
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Re: What would you buy?

Postby KGB » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:33 am

Easy answer for me: Demons

Since it's a large map (100x or 150x) with I assume plenty of cities (60+) and lots of good pillage material (2 turn units) for more gold. 4000 starting gold allows 3 demon cities to get going very quickly. Ultimately the 55 combat strength of Demon masses is too good to ignore. I would also be heavily investing in Scorpions for their 35 combat strength. Those units would be the bulk of my armies with the obvious bonus unit cities (siege,unicorn,grand archon, Pegasi,Dragon,Ghost) mixed in here and there.

Hero wise this is the place for a starting Assassin. You upgrade his personal Ambush to 100% at L3 so he can take all cities in solo mode. This works better than a Barb because after L3 he can increase his group ambush to 70 while the Barb has less long term value as he provides little stack skill. If there are plenty of ruins you can get a 2nd hero Ranger going early on to search them but in reality you should spend all your gold on production and simply purchase L3-L5 heroes on turns 15+ which is when you'll be meeting your opponent.

Even though I am purchasing Demons in my Capitol I am not sure I consider them the best value unit overall. I merely consider them the best late game unit which is what this game will reach.

KGB
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Re: What would you buy?

Postby tabanli » Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:18 pm

Demons are the ultimate late game meat unit. However I think Green Dragons are better solo-expander early in the game. You wait 4 turns yes. But they go almost twice fast than most other units. I really like solo-expander units early in the game.

Funny thing, we had a similar discussion before about the best flying non-hero stack. Always a tough call between Demons and Green Dragon.
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Re: What would you buy?

Postby KGB » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:27 pm

Green Dragons are definitely another good option and I'd have no problem going that route either. Usually in a longer game it's possible to pick up another 4-6 Demons from ruins/hero offers which is why I suggested the Demon over the Green.

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Re: What would you buy?

Postby Versace » Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:43 pm

I think Greed Dragon is the better choice for the reason tabanii mentioned, they are great for solo expansion. With demons you have to wait for a long time to get a stack going and it is wasteful to use a stack against neutrals anyway. And you would want to have a Greed Dragon in any stack anyway for the group move bonus. This production is very useful from start to finish. Demons would be a good buy for later cities when you don't need to produce units for expansion anymore.

I might still just buy scouts or wizards and hope to get heroes with good allies.

I choose the wizard. 2 turns to produce, 2ul and the speed mean that you will have a bunch of them quickly wherever needed, your heroes can search any ruin and you will have 3000 gold left to get good hero offers
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Re: What would you buy?

Postby KGB » Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:21 pm

Biggest difference between Demon/Green is in cost. 1800 vs 1450. So you can buy 4 Demon cities (5800) for 3 Green Dragon cities (5400). Given Demons come faster (3 turns vs 4) over time you'll end up with a LOT more Demons than Green Dragons.

The other advantage is the one you mentioned about getting a hero with good allies. The initial Hero+Demon outlay is 2K leaving 2K for a hero with good allies (Red Dragon) on turn 2. The Green leaves you with 1600 which makes that Red Dragon much less likely.

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Re: What would you buy?

Postby Moonknight » Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:50 pm

Speaking of flying units, I've found that i really do not like Griffons anymore with the ranger and all the anti-air weapons available.

They are just too vulnerable outside of cities, and their strength in cities don't seem to justify the cost + 3 turn production.
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Re: What would you buy?

Postby Versace » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:13 pm

Plus they are slow now that flyers can not benefit from roads. I am not buying them much either
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Re: What would you buy?

Postby magian » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:26 pm

Griffons really are very slow now. I don't always pillage them, but I don't buy them.

To answer the "what would you build" question. Tablani, you haven't given me enough information to make an informed choice. Are there many ruins nearby? What level are they? Are there temples nearby? Those are factors that I usually consider when making my intial unit purchase.

For example, I would build green dragon over demons if I will have access to a strength temple.
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Re: What would you buy?

Postby Zaque » Fri Jun 07, 2013 12:12 pm

I really like the green dragon first in this case, mainly for the move bonus. Faster stacks is always better. Assuming a decent number of cities you can easily still get to 3-4 demon cities in 4 turns or so with your leftover gold if you do not go the multi hero way, which I think is a more interesting question.

Do you try for multi heroes, which allies do you accept if any, which order would you grab the heroes in?
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