swarm & ambush

[strach]

to get those 8 ghosts I had to accept a hero offer with 4 ghosts (around 3000 gold) and produce and vector ghosts form 2 other cities, and than chase a hero. it wasnt that easy (although my opponent helped me of course it is good to have a lot of ghosts. but it is also good to have a city producing devils (to cancel dragons and medusas), a city producing grandarchons (to cancel heroes) etc. but I think that ghosts are a bit to fast - 18 move would be better, and they could be a bit more expensive

[LPhillips]

I don't want a cap to the Ambush max. Just a cap to the Ambush bonus. Maybe 60% or such?

My math was bad. But the point is that you'd have to sacrifice 8 units for every 7 killed, no matter how good the units are. There would be such a thing as an unconquerable city. Seems like a potential balance problem to me, even as hard as it would be to gather the units required.

[piranha]

Try to win a game by sitting with ghosts your cities and come back when you've won with that strategy .

[strach]

piranha
true that. if someone claims that some types of units are totally unbalanced he should be able to prove it, by winnig a lot of games with it. in my opinion demons are that kind of unit right know. so in one of my games I got 3 castles producing them and vectoring to the frontlines. will see how hat works...

[KGB]

Strach,

Hard to know what your test is going to show. I don't think anyone doubts a swarm of Demons is powerful and that you'll kill a lot of 1 turn units with them.

But in your test game it requires 4700 gold for those 3 cities. Not too many times do players have that kind of money lying around. You must either be playing a VERY rich map (in which case all players can do that) or have forgone buying Dragons/Devils/Archons.

For example for considerable less money one could buy 3 Ghost cities and it would be bye-bye Demons anytime they met.

Don't get me wrong, I love Demons and think they are really powerful since they are the only unit that can reach 65 strength on it's own without any bonus units/heroes. But it either takes a long time (1 Demon city) or a very rich map. On top of that they are vulnerable to anti-air, have only 2 hits and a very large upkeep (10 so getting a lot of these guys is going to eat up a lot of money). I mostly love them when I get 3+ on a hero offer for 3K plus gold when I get a ready made stack all together and just add a Pegasi/Dragon for extra bonus strength.

At worst, they need to be dialed back by 10 strength (to 15) and 1 more swarm number added (5) so they can still reach 65 but require 1 more Demon to do so. But it would be hard to convince me it's needed.

KGB

[strach]

KGB
100% agree. but if you have some spare money that may be the best investment. problem with dragons and heros is that they can be easily countered - often one archon in a good spot makes your opponent's hero useless, and it's not that easy to have all those ghost's prepared for defense against demons. anyway - it turns out that ghosts are a good investment in any scenario - they are always usefull.

[kenc80]

My point in this post was to illustrate the value of swarm & ambush for new players. Its definitely not a winning strategy but can be very effective in certain situations. Good discussion!

[Versace]

Does the swarming bonus stay throughout the battle?

example:

you have 4 demons, str 65. You lose the first one during the battle, battle is still going, are the remaining 3 devils now 55 or still 65?

[kenc80]

versace, no swarm doesn't. it decreases with every death. ambush does stay, even after the ghost dies.

[KGB]

Versace,

Actually the bonus stays throughout the battle. It is not recalculated until after the battle ends.

KGB