German gold in USA is gone

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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby SCIkick » Fri Aug 29, 2014 4:55 am

I'm saying that in general.

I don't care what happens in the Ukraine. All I'm saying it's dumb to believe everything your media dictates, no matter what country you are from.

Also, I'm pretty sick of folks assuming that Americans are naturally greedy, imperialistic, etc. I doubt that any group of people has ever given more out of their pockets to the unfortunate than the American taxpayer....

I accept that... I have no control over my government other than my vote, so quit taking it out on American people.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby Igor » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:08 pm

SCIkick wrote:I'm saying that in general.

I don't think that it was said "in general". Here is it:
SCIkick wrote:I admit there's a lot the U.S. media hides . . . But, I find it laughable that you think Russian media is any more truthful than U.S.A.

Thus I think you should answer question asked by Solo, if you don't wish your statement looking as an empty sound, like all propaganda in US media is.

That is the difference between Russian media (in part of foreign policy) and US media: Russian media gives facts but US media gives loud empty sounds.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby piranha » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:52 am

For people living outside the Russian controlled regime it's clear that Putin is a liar and that he is brainwashing the Russian people. There are no facts, just lies.
You have a different view living in Russia and there is no reason trying to talk anyone into thinking different. I don't see any reason for your propaganda posting. We are reading a different reality and we think it's the truth.

Whats interesting is what you think this will lead to since you seem to be passionate about it. The sanctions placed by both sides will surly have an impact on the economy of all countries involved. It doesn't seem like Putin is going to draw back the invasion plans of Ukraine which is likely to lead to more sanctions. You were eagerly stating that the Russian people are used to live under poor conditions having lived like that for a long time so they will endure it but is that really something to strive for?
There are of course other countries to do business with but it looks like Russia is going to take a bigger a hit being isolated.
Before the Crimea invasion the Russian economy was growing really good and there was a lot of investments being done in Russia which was reducing the barrier between Russia and the west. To me that seems like a positive development both for the Russian people getting a higher standard of living and a more peaceful world compared to the how it was during the cold war but it seems like you are eager to get back to how it was before.
Where do you see Russia gaining from Putins actions?
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby Igor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:51 pm

Since USSR had splitted itself to different countries and Russia had got own president, Russian people got many preferences, the biggest of them are the ability to have own property and ability move across border of the country both ways out or in. That's why it was great step to freedom from despotic communist regime. Now Russia has become one of capitalistic countries as many other countries are.
But since that time the world became to have one pole only. US government started to do whatever it wish in the world without any active opposition.
May be let it be? What reason to do something against this? What can happen if USA will rule the world as he wish?
Current things in Iraq, Yugoslavia and Ukraine clearly show to all thinking people what can be if a country don't have necessary defence.
Everyone should be knows that were no true reasons to occupy Iraq. And now there is no reasons to support for killing mass of peaceful people in Novorossiya which was a part of Ukraine.
But for people who lives far from this burning point all things which happen there can look like a Hollywood films which usually show such actions.
To get what people feel when they are under shooting of Ukraine military just enough to imagine for a minute that those missiles and phosphorus bombs are folling down to your neighbours' houses, and your neighbours and friends which you good know lie in blood because they are dead. Imagine this just for a minute. Then you can stop this imagination and continue to get pleasure of your usually life as you did before. But those people in Novorossyia can't do so, they can't stop this because for them this is reality, awful reality.
Common people who lives far from this are usually busy of job or own busyness, they also spend time with family and have just little time to watch or to read about what happens in the world. In this short time people usually use sources they trust doesn't matter what these sources tell, any facts or wonderful empty words. People wish to keep comfort in own soul and don't break it with opposite news. That is why sweet lie seems such wonderful.
Other people though wish to know real reasons of what happens. They don't like when any media tell them only opinions and suppositions, they wish to read and watch any facts and evidences. That is why so necessary to use different information sources to compare opposite sight points and create for yourself real picture of things in world hot points, and what reasons and what governments have lead these points to became so hot.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby Igor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:58 pm

piranha wrote:For people living outside the Russian controlled regime it's clear that Putin is a liar and that he is brainwashing the Russian people. There are no facts, just lies.

Any examples? No one of them, right?
This is the base of information policy toward Russia for many US and European media, to accuse without proof.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby piranha » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:40 pm

Russian soldiers invaded crimea with uniforms not stating they were Russian, Putin denied they were Russian for a couple of days but they turned out to be Russian. I'd call that lying.

If you managed to avoid those news just google it and you should find it.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby Igor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:06 pm

piranha wrote:Russian soldiers invaded crimea with uniforms not stating they were Russian, Putin denied they were Russian for a couple of days but they turned out to be Russian. I'd call that lying.

But Putin said the truth very fast, right?

piranha wrote:If you managed to avoid those news just google it and you should find it.

Oh, no, this is unreal difficult task to look a grain of truth inside a mountain of false which US oriented media usually produce. There is a Russian proverb: It's difficult to look for a black cat in a dark room, especially when no cats are there.
Do you know something? In case if it is, can you place it here to discuss?
You never told facts ever before but only assessments. I think though that you can be interesting interlocutor like KGB is and if you have to say something it should be interesting to hear.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby Igor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:48 pm

piranha wrote:For people living outside the Russian controlled regime it's clear that Putin is a liar and that he is brainwashing the Russian people. There are no facts, just lies.

Any serious examples?
I'm still interested and may be others also interested to know, if you have something.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby Igor » Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:26 pm

piranha wrote:Whats interesting is what you think this will lead to since you seem to be passionate about it. The sanctions placed by both sides will surly have an impact on the economy of all countries involved. It doesn't seem like Putin is going to draw back the invasion plans of Ukraine which is likely to lead to more sanctions. You were eagerly stating that the Russian people are used to live under poor conditions having lived like that for a long time so they will endure it but is that really something to strive for?
There are of course other countries to do business with but it looks like Russia is going to take a bigger a hit being isolated.
Before the Crimea invasion the Russian economy was growing really good and there was a lot of investments being done in Russia which was reducing the barrier between Russia and the west. To me that seems like a positive development both for the Russian people getting a higher standard of living and a more peaceful world compared to the how it was during the cold war but it seems like you are eager to get back to how it was before.
Where do you see Russia gaining from Putins actions?

Sanctions is only a method by which US and his satellites try to press Russia. This way don't lead to regulating the situation on post-Ukrainian territory. As far as west will press, Russia will answer. This is impossible for Russians to lay down under the preassure. If many European countries are agree to forget of independent foreign policy for to adapt it to what US wish, Russia will keep independence lifelong. No country will dictate to Russia, it's impossible. That is why all western sanctions will strike only Europe (not USA, they don't depend on this)
There is one of Russian expats, Chichvarkin, who left Russia and is now living in London. He was called for interview on Bloomberg television, where he was asked about Ukraine. Chichvarkin said that there was a big mistake to start anti-Russian sanctions, they pushed all Russian people closer to Putin and all who was far from him started to believe him. After these unexpected words the leading of this tv-program changed the theme of talking.
If Europe think to use sanctions to stop the war between Ukraine and Novorossiya, she is on the wrong way.
It looks clear that for stopping this war need to stop shooting and start to speak.
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Re: German gold in USA is gone

Postby piranha » Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:22 pm

If you followed the story of Mikhail Khodorovsky http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Khodorkovsky its hard not to question Putins actions. Its more or less inventing charges to get the competition out of the way.

Quoting Khodorovsky:
"It is the Singapore model, it is a term that people understand in Russia these days. It means that theoretically you have a free press, but in practice there is self-censorship. Theoretically you have courts; in practice the courts adopt decisions dictated from above. Theoretically there are civil rights enshrined in the constitution; in practice you are not able to exercise some of these rights.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Russi ... in_Ukraine
Russia intervened in Ukraine on several fronts following the events of the February 2014 Ukrainian revolution and the success of the Euromaidan movement. Following the revolution, a secession crisis erupted in the Ukrainian territory of Crimea. In late February, unmarked soldiers gradually took control of Crimea. These men were identified as Russian special forces[42] and other paramilitaries, although the Russian government initially denied involvement.[43] The local population and the media referred to these men as "little green men" or "martians",[44][45] while Russia referred to them as "local self-defense" units.[46][47] After this take-over, Russia annexed Crimea following a disputed status referendum there. Several months later, as Russian-backed separatist insurgents fought a war against Ukrainian forces in the Donbass region of Ukraine, unmarked troops and military vehicles from Russia crossed into Ukraine, reinforced the insurgents,[48] and opened a new front on the coast of the Sea of Azov.[49] The Russian government maintained that all Russian soldiers in Ukraine either inadvertently crossed the border or were off duty and "on vacation".[50][51]


Okay so Putins army are wandering into Ukraine by accident or on vacation and brings their weapons with them into Ukraine.
If you want to trust someone giving such excuses for invading it's up to you.
There are more stories of similar type but I don't have time to google them right now.

I'll try to find time to answer your last post tomorrow, it's a more interesting topic I think.
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