Salisbury, Skrypal

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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby Igor » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:34 pm

fantastory wrote:You try to make a laugh from me, do not do it.

Why not? If that's so funny that you continue to hate communism so much as if it is still now :)

fantastory wrote:But as we look at Russian seeing the same person in charge for 20 years it gives a clue that nothing changed there.

To compare with communistic times? Many things are changed. Two main of them are that Russians now can have own property and can freey cross the borded of the country both ways.
These things were given (if exactly to say - returned) to Russians by Boris Yeltsin.

fantastory wrote:We are not anti Russia - but we surely are anti-Putin

This is not the object of the thread. Here is about who attacked Sripals.
Doesn't matter are you for Putin or agains him.

fantastory wrote:obvious thing without evidence...
The reason why special forces are involved is so there would be no evidence. You see those are the methods KGB used - and for us FSB is just a continuation.

List looks too short. May I continue and add some secret services?
CIA, BND, MI6, Poland AW (all who is anti-Putin)

fantastory wrote:We do not bring it out with out not asked so you can not say we accuse someone.

Who are these 'We'?

fantastory wrote:I have asked about 5 persons about the issue - they can debate for hours and things ends on knifes when it goes for political matters. This time there was only one answer.

Were they 5 persons knowing nothing exactly, or did they base their opinions on some facts? What other versions were discussed with them (if were)? Why these 5 persons chose version with Russia and not one of many others, what ruled by them?

fantastory wrote:Americans would not attack their own agent, and they are mentially very close with Britain (same as Canada)

Did you read this in fairytails? Perhaps CIA can attack anyone anywhere, including own people in own country if they think this can bring big gain.

fantastory wrote:As it goes for Syrian, Ukrainian or Chechen rebels - I do not feel them competent of doing any sensible action on British territory.

Why not? With CIA supporting or with MI6 supporting as well. With necessarry chemical substance 'lost' by US military (in reality - given).

fantastory wrote:The Netsmov.
It is just that from time to time some of Putins political opponents disappears, or a criticizing him journalist have an accident.

Does this mean you (Poland people, and may be some others in EU) now blames Putin in all bad things that are happening in the world? Having no evidences, and where so many other versions.

This is why I called such an oppinion as preconceived - with no evidences but is based only on dislike toward Putin.

Haven't you guys tired of lie and propaganda?
You think you are only anti-Putin, but your governments act as if they are anti-Russia.
Hoping you to correct your mind toword the right side, the side of law but not evil.

Still interested in any evidences from Europian local media or well based versions by analysts somebody has hear.
All that is now is that the West blames Putin, having nothing exact on hands.
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby fantastory » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:50 pm

Igor wrote:Why not? If that's so funny that you continue to hate communism so much as if it is still now :)

Because then we lose the point. :roll:
But you are rigtht there must be some puns - they show how the punner thinks

Igor wrote:Boris Yeltsin

For the first time I could not guess who you mean, I always feel it strange when bukvas are translated phonetically.

Igor wrote:
fantastory wrote:Americans would not attack their own agent, and they are mentially very close with Britain (same as Canada)

Did you read this in fairytails? Perhaps CIA can attack anyone anywhere, including own people in own country if they think this can bring big gain.

From their history, they have a Special Relationship. They could have act against their own people but not against Britain one.
But still I am not giving it a trust - we just do not think this way in Poland.

Igor wrote:Does this mean you (Poland people, and may be some others in EU) now blames Putin in all bad things that are happening in the world?

No all. America and UE do bad things too. Only when it goes about his critics, political opponents or traitors.

Igor wrote:Haven't you guys tired of lie and propaganda?

Ohhh we have enough of it in our own country.

Now back to the issue. I've digged a little.
4) As it goes for Anti-Oil - such incident is not going to stop oil businesses investments. Currently I can name two one with Germany - no way that Germany would stop their businesses because of incident in Britain.
The second one in Iran which already is under sanctions. So I see no point here.

2) As it goes for Russian involvement. Skripal was seemed to continue his work for Britains, and as I check whole of his family died in accidents previously.

1) CIA and MI6 - well i think they would have better proofs for the issue.

Probably in the future we could read from the consequences of the fact.
Currently there is only three: dead Russian traitor, blame spread about Russia and one Pole seeking at the issue.
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby Igor » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:25 pm

Organization of Prohibition of Chemical Weapon just published the resalts of expert investigation of the toxic material by which Skripals were poisonned, the same material as UK experts told about. And both UK experts and OPCW experts can't define the country where this chemical material was created.
This crime is now continuing to be undisclosed.

But as this seems Western propaganda don't need any investigation results at all, as usualy for the West these years.
Intrigue: whether the West is able to convert 10 own loud politicians into just the smart ones? :)
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby fantastory » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:03 pm

How does it differ from Russian propaganda?
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby Igor » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:09 am

Truth is usually differs from propaganda, for those who are able to see something outside the world local media are drawing :)
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby fantastory » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:08 am

And what are the media you look at other than rt or sputnik?
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby Igor » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:24 am

fantastory wrote:And what are the media you look at other than rt or sputnik?

There are a lot of Russian-speaking media, but this would be difficult for others who don't know Russian language to read them.
Means much what do you read from any media - facts (as from OPCW etc) or suppositions from empty-heads in Western media.

The picture that UK/USA/EU media are drawing is that Russia is always guilty, in all what happens, incuding Skripals issue.
The truth is that the country-produser of the chemical material can't be defined (said by OPCW), that tells that guilty country/terroristic group is stil unknown, the crime is undisclosed.

For what reason to blame somebody without evidences instead of making deep investigation?
This is what is usually being called as a false or propaganda. No investigations but only empty blaming. This is the 'soul' of Western media.
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby Igor » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:57 pm

Igor wrote:There are a lot of Russian-speaking media, but this would be difficult for others who don't know Russian language to read them.
Means much what do you read from any media - facts (as from OPCW etc) or suppositions from empty-heads in Western media.

If to try to translate from Russian to any native language through Google or so, the media:
mail.ru (https://news.mail.ru)
rbc (https://www.rbc.ru)
kommersant (https://www.kommersant.ru)
yandex (https://news.yandex.ru/?clid=1955454-020&win=90)
znak.com (https://www.znak.com)
other media.
(Better to try to walk aside of media under authority of Putin - vesty.ru, 1st TV channel, NTV, RenTV and others which speak a lot with mostly about Putin himsef or for his best. There are free media in Russia as well.)
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby fantastory » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:17 pm

It does not differ from what we I see in polish or western media. Are those also western propaganda media?
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Re: Salisbury, Skrypal

Postby fantastory » Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:05 am

About the skripal here are some other theories mainly pointing at CIA/MI6
http://www.businessinsider.com/theories ... ack-2018-3

But for any intelligence service a spies are of the value. And is it not the only value they have?
So CIA/MI6 killing its own spy would be a shot in the feet. They would not gain more spies.
But for FSB/GRU such threat would be a benefit.

Also you say that CIA could do it just to have a reason for blaming Russia. It seem that in Russia it does not look like this. But rather as a western propaganda - so it is increasing popularity of current government, who fights the western oppressor. So in this case Russia also have so profits especially before election.

And here was it not a direct threaten from Russain television, "spy is a dangerouse profession" :

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-43330498
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... in-england
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