Army Simulator is not working

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Army Simulator is not working

Postby tabanli » Mon May 13, 2019 7:12 am

I couldn't make army simulator to work. I am using Chrome on PC, is this a browser issue?
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Re: Army Simulator is not working

Postby Chazar » Thu May 16, 2019 7:42 pm

As far as I remember, the army simulator has been disabled due to protests from some of the more experienced players here. The simulator had thus been nerfed to only compute the effective strength of each unit within a combined army stack, accounting for some of the bonuses, but no more to calculate actual win chances. This is somewhat silly, as the game's mechanics are publicly documented and anyone knowledgeable in mathematics can compute the chances.

I think that a publicly available combat simulator would encourage new players to play the game much more than being repeatedly slaughtered by experienced players.
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Re: Army Simulator is not working

Postby KGB » Thu May 16, 2019 11:46 pm

Chazar wrote:I think that a publicly available combat simulator would encourage new players to play the game much more than being repeatedly slaughtered by experienced players.


I'm perfectly fine with this provided it's only available for 'fun' games (vs AI and non-ladder) where new players can learn their craft. It should not be available in ladder games in the same manner that the reports menu (cities, gold, armies etc) isn't.

Having a simulator players can use whenever they want reduces the game to the same thing as 2 players playing chess and both freely consulting a chess computer before they decide on their move.

IMHO, the game shows *way* too much info now on the battle/battle replay screens. Most of the numbers should be hidden/removed anyway (they were there originally for debugging the combat routines which have long since had all the bug removed). Tabanli has been around since DLR (one of the games Warbarons is based on) and he can tell you there was no where NEAR the info available there for players (in fact losers of battles didn't see anything other than they lost and what the armies were on both sides since no one survived to tell anything). War2 (another game Warbarons is based on that is older than DLR) showed even less than DLR did! Both games were incredibly popular and no one complained that new players were turned off because they didn't understand combat. They learned by playing and asking questions.

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Re: Army Simulator is not working

Postby Chazar » Sun May 19, 2019 9:42 am

Yeah, I've been around since the original Warlords, too.

Nobody is asking for a "Combat-Adviser"-like functionality, where you could click an adjacent stack and get a percentage chance without even spending a bat.

We are talking about a calculator that allows you to enter arbitrary stacks and compute probabilities.

Such a functionality is independent of any particular game, thus the distinction between ladder and non-ladder games is not applicable at all.

Why would this help new players or returning players like tabanli?
Well, strength numbers mean nothing until you know their effect. You have played hundreds of games and now know by heart the likely outcomes of strength x versus strength y. Giving a new player access to a probability table of strength x vs strength y eliminates this boring advantage gained by stupid grinding down of hundreds of games.

Even worse: consider a new player has played some games versus AI and wants to participate in the ladder. Say the new player is a tactical mastermind, reads the map well and predicts his opponents move exactly. The game progresses well and suddenly rare units appear, like mammoths, demons, devils and archons, that the new player had simply not yet seen in combat in his test games against AI. Suddenly this new tactical mastermind is at a severe disadvantage for being unable to estimate the probabilities of these unfamiliar unit.

Of course, the newbie could have played 20+ games versus AI before participating in a ladder, but this is boring to do and should not be a hindrance to enter into this interesting game!
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Re: Army Simulator is not working

Postby KGB » Sun May 19, 2019 3:12 pm

Chazar wrote:Nobody is asking for a "Combat-Adviser"-like functionality, where you could click an adjacent stack and get a percentage chance without even spending a bat.

We are talking about a calculator that allows you to enter arbitrary stacks and compute probabilities.


A calculator like what you describe is exactly what a combat advisor is. Players would just enter exactly what they have in their stack and the enemy stack into this combat calculator. At that point it's a combat advisor.

A 1 unit vs 1 unit calculator is fine especially if it breaks down the numbers in nice detail. But anything beyond that is a combat advisor since players can and will enter their stacks and the enemy stacks into it. That's why it doesn't exist and shouldn't exist until all the 'numbers' are removed from the real combat screen.

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