Heavy Cavalry worth it?

[Chazar]

I hardly find myself buying heavy cavalry production in Warbarons, despite loving them in the old Warlords game. The unit still seems popular according to the statistics, so I wonder what I am missing about this unit.

If I need a cheap 2T unit, then I usually buy Giants: 50 Gold cheaper, 1 upkeep less, +1 view range, useful pathfinding through hills, construction capability. The heavy cavalry has just +2 move points, not enough to outweigh the drawbacks.

Of course, another important difference is the terrain strength bonus, but even there I find the giant's +10 in hills far more useful than the cavalry's +10 on open. Who is crazy enough to park units out on the open, now that the horse lord is around? The horse lord already dominates the open plain with his astronomically high leadership, so even then the heavy cavalry 's +10 hardly matters much then. So heavy cavalry is a niche unit for me, that only comes into play if neither me nor my enemy plans on bringing a horse lord nor unicorns into play. It is no longer the staple of my armies. Meh.

So what am I missing here? Is the heavy cavalry really a bad deal as I portray it?

If so, what could be done? Maybe both cavalry types need +3/+4 move points to become an interesting choice again, so that they can actually catch up with enemy and/or friendly units. Or alternatively give the heavy cav +8 strength and a -10 anti air bonus, effectively making it stronger against non-flyers only? Being a counter against ground forces seems to be a fitting role for the heavy cav.

(Actually, I think reducing hill pathfinding to 2 for dwarves (2 for leading only, still 1 for the dwarf himself), 3 for giants and 4 for scouts would place more emphasis on the plains again, since currently it is just too easy to cut right through rough terrain. However, I really like the current dwarven taxi mechanism, so I would vote against that. )

[KGB]

I think looking at the stats is VERY misleading because:

1) What gets bought is hugely influenced by the map. Open terrain is probably 5X as common as hill or forest terrain so there is far less reason to buy hill/forest units (remember Hv Calv gets snow benefit too so that's another reason it will be bought more)
2) Quite a few maps have restricted production and Hv Calv is very often a unit that is always allowed.
3) Many units are found for 'free' as part of the default production and thus aren't bought (Battering Ram for example is commonly found so isn't bought much even though I usually see them) very often.

All the low end 2 turn units (Giant/Hv Calv/Wolfrider/Crusader/Yeti/Serpent/Ram) are basically the same unit. By that I mean the only real difference between them is their terrain bonus (I consider the Rams +5 Siege to be a weak City terrain bonus given many cities have no wall defense. The Crusader's terrain bonus is UL/Warding). So you end up using masses of one of them in a game based on the most common terrain for that map. It's also why all these units appear in 'normal' cites as part of the free production. I virtually NEVER buy anything in this group except Serpents/WolfRiders as I expect to find what I need.

The high end 2 turn units (Scorpion/Spider/Minotaur/Wizard) are the ones that really make an actual difference in the game. These are only found in 'good' cities. I buy units in this group because these can go in hero stacks or can be used to break down better defended cities.

So giving Hv Calv another +2 moves isn't going to make it any more attractive. It will only get used on maps with lots of Open terrain with some Snow use too).

KGB

[Chazar]

My main point was that the Horse Lord breaks that symmetry! Without the Horse Lord, I agree. But now, hills are a good option to park between turns, since parking on open has become too dangerous.

[KGB]

Problem is many maps have limited or no hills or there are no hills where you need them to park between turns.

The HorseLord (Ranger in forest/swamp) really only breaks things on smaller (75x and less) maps. On larger ones there is so much space 1-2 heroes can't cover it all.

KGB

[tabanli]

Usually I have a two main strategies and a main tactic in this game.
Strategy 1: Expand fast
Strategy 2: Built the best hero stack that could have very good chances to beat any good hero stack.
Tactic:Reach low defense cities and raze them

So I buy Heavy Cavalry in Battlefield and 8 Kingdoms maps when my main hero is Horse Lord. At L4 with Horse Lord it becomes 60/2 so I don't need an Assassin to stop super barbarian. Sometimes sage offers me XP so even at L2 it becomes 50/2 so I never plunder them when I find in them in cities. In fact I never plunder any 2 turn units (except scorpions and battering rams if I already found one). SO I would say very useful unit.

So the question should be "do I auto plunder them". If there is a unit that you would automatically plunder regardless of the map, that unit can be considered obsolete.

The only 2 turn unit I buy more than the others are the spiders, fantastic defenders and good early expanders. They pair well with Medusa/Catapult/Elephant stacks. In some games I exclusively go with scorpions so plunder everything and build scorpions everywhere. So for me there isn't an obsolete L2 unit.