Sorceress Max Strength

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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby smursh » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 am

I believe it is a part of the issue. Getting to 2nd level may not matter much but third is a big factor. At 36 strength you also can begin to hit income buildings on the way and combined with the extra xp it matters. Other issue is all the extra powers sorceress can buy, and does do to all the leveling. She becomes a combo hero taking ruins and cities at too high a rate in the early game.

also note max strength is 40, not 45. those 45 strength sorceresses you see have been to a strength temple.
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby makmak » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:30 am

40 is fine imo
Sorceress may easily end up slain meeting any other hero and can't assist much in conquering cities.
She is special purpose hero and her main pro in start is that she may get early to a level 1 ruin so that player gets early another hero, then try to get as many ruins as possible before being slain.
If something should be tweaked downside could be the movement by 4 pt or by asking more points to get to max
:roll:
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby Vicotnic » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:25 pm

I think the main problem with the Sorceress is at what speed she unaided can search ruins, this becomes ridiculous at maps like Vortex and Airstream where she is the only choice that makes any sense at all but it is also highly problematic in many other maps as well. On maps with just a few lvl1 ruins and no or well guarded high leveled ruins she is a fine hero but on many maps she is out of controll.

My idea for a fix would be to switch ud lore with the ranger so she cap out at 18 (or maybe even go from 10 to 16 like the HL), this would prevent her from snowballing lvl1 ruins into lvl 2 into lvl 3. And it could also make players think twice if they want a Ranger or a Sorc for ruin hunter. It might be that it would weaken her to much but I don't think so, I have seen her put to good use on maps with very few ruins.
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby Chazar » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:44 am

The Ranger is already the faster way to get into L2 Ruins on many maps, especially if there is an UL temple. Limiting the Sorceress UL-max would be too much of a disadvantage. However, maybe 4UL/2 would be enough to slow her down?
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby Vicotnic » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:59 pm

Well Ranger gets 18 ul one level before the Sorceress gets 20 ul, but the Sorceress moves faster and over water and has more intelligence. Also 18 is quite risky to do L2 at, I feel it would take very specific circumstances for Ranger to be a better ruin hunter then Sorc.

I'm not sure the fastest most efficient ruin hunter should also be the only one except the Paladin able to solo L3 ruins (and also the only once able to solo lvl2 at a reasonable pace).
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby KGB » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:41 pm

Her UL caps out now at 30 which is enough to do L3 ruins almost 100% and if she gets any UL item (which is likely) she'll be at 100%. Maybe just lowering her max UL to 25 (if the ruins get changed to 12/24/36 from 12/22/33) or 20 max if they don't. Even at 20 she can open L3 with an item and a couple of Ghosts/Wizards.

Still think ruin XP needs to be halved once you reach 100% success. That slows down all heroes getting crazy XP from maps with too many ruins.

KGB
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby Vicotnic » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:35 pm

I don't like that idea at all, that would punish you for making sure your searching is 100%. I really don't fancy the idea of it being the right tactical decision to not accompany your hero with scounts and risk them dying (I don't like raising the cap for ruins either).

The exp gain could maybe be slightly rebalanced between exp for ruins and exp for battle thou, on most maps I don't think it is a big deal thou. I think the 36 movement 20 ul Sorceress is the problem more then the exp gain for ruin hunting in general, I don't think it would be as bad if it was Paladins and Rangers running around searching ruins (well maybe on Air and Vortex but those maps are extream).

I still think it is the Sorceress ul that is the problem, both being super fast and able to solo search L2 ruins and even L3 ruins is problematic.
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby KGB » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:59 pm

I'm in a 3v3 team game right now on a larger map.

Everyone took a sorceress on turn 1 (there is a fair bit of water on the map but not it's not dominant). It's turn 4 and one of my team mates already has a L4 sorceress with 20 UL, 36 moves and 20 unspent points to be used when needed (strength, water leadership etc).

It happened because they hit L1 Sage on turn 1 and turn 3 in a ruin along with conquering 2 neutrals and a couple of empty towers + a gold site (not sure she was in on all those). That got her to L3 and now on turn 4 she just opened a L2 ruin (20 UL remember) to reach L4.

She's gamebreaking on turn 4 once my teammate gives her +16 strength to go with the 36 movement (move temple too).

Maybe the sages have to come out of L1 ruins too.

KGB

P.S. My own Sorceress is only mid L2 after conquering 1 city, opening 2 ruins and 2 towers. Next turn she should reach L3 and maybe L4 when I hit a bunch more easy close by stuff.
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby Vicotnic » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:47 pm

That's pretty bad, and highlights another thing I hate about her: the randomness of ruin hunting is far escalated by this movement 34 champ that can get 30 ul. Not to mention many games are decieded by the sorcs running alone fighting each other often in close to a 50/50 battle.

I still think it is her ability to solo search L2 ruins that should be hit.
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Re: Sorceress Max Strength

Postby slanmaster » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:31 pm

I Think KGB is on to something here. Agree that ruin hunting xp is a bit overtuned. Maybe start with reducing it by 25% or 33% or something like that? Battle xp is fine though in my opinion. Increasing it would highly favor barbarian - who is now in a good spot levelling wise.
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