About docks, movement and secret super techniques (?)

[Negern]

When a hero enters a dock with either flier, water units or stats in divine movement, it is possible for the hero to enter "non boat mode". "Non boat mode" is neither flying nor water, but ordinary "ground", like when walking on regular terrain.
Say a hero has 24 steps from the boat. It travels 12 steps, and then enters land mode with help from a creature or stats in divine movement. It is possible to move 12 steps on land too. So it's possible to move steps for 2 turns in one turn. No problem with that. But it is a problem that most people don't know about it. I can't remember seeing anyone use this function, and no one has mentioned it. Players that doesn't know about it gets a big disadvantage. Say a city is 6 steps from closest dock. "Very safe from that barb, who has to convert to land, so I don't put much defenses there". And in most cases - this is true. Any unit disembarking will have only a few steps. But when this "back door" is used, the unit doesn't disembark - it just flies/waterwalks of the port, with no cost except for the terrain. So the barb could have not only 6 steps left, but even more than 20. And it would be possible to take not only one city, but a hand full. And a player could lose solely because he didn't know about an obscure rule that another player knew about.
I think this could be a good function, but since there is no information about it and many will never know that it exists, right now it doesn't add to the game. And since I can't think of any good ways to inform about it and it's a very powerful function when used right, maybe it shouldn't exist at all?

Another thing that reminds me of this is that heroes can ride on water unit to the shore, and then unstack and hop onto the shore without having to go through a port. Like, how many knows about this? Is it supposed to be like this? Cause the hero can't jump back on again later. It seems strange.
But same as above. Would be a good function if more people knew about it (I never see anyone do it in replays or in game - and I don't do it myself either! Not the above thing either, the conversion trick.)

+ money is still drawn from docks when funds are insufficient. If i enter with 19 gold and click down to level 3 boat, i can't accept. Only cancel. Money is still drawn = 0 gold. Not -1 anymore, but 0 - almost as bad. Perhaps it would be possible to make it impossible to click the button if not enough money is in treasury? I remember this bug has been reported several times in various forms. Making it impossible to click down to level 2 or 3 without enough money would kill it once and for all.

+ if i have a hero with divine movement over a dock at beginning of turn, and then put him in a boat, path finder gets very strange. When I try to move to land (from a dock), it takes a path as if the boat were flying, but not the optimal route even for fliers. It goes the opposite direction up from the dock, then down again next to the dock. Both when i have 1 and 2 points in divine movement. Haven't tried with 3 yet, but I guess it'd be the same there.

+ dock symbol doesn't show on multi tab tool if a hero with divine movement steps on it. it's blank.

+ heroes doesn't drown even when staying on water several turns. Only gets locked in place except if it's on a shore.

About the ai games, i think it would be very good if the player could chose which starting position to get, and maybe other things such as starting gold or starting stack. Only vs ai, and only an option for those that don't want random. Would be good both for new players and old. Someone wants to learn more how snow units work - then it's good to be able to pick the snow starting position. Someone wants to try new tactics on a map (or maybe test balance/search bugs/etc) and need to start on a certain position to do it.
Would be good if a resign function was added too. AIs with very slim chances could ask "Would you spare me?" yes/no.

[Experix]

I definitely used both technics and use the second one more than rarely
I think it's quite intuitive in the view of other rules for moving on water. If it would be otherwise, it would be confusing for me. The only thing which is a little strange for me is the fact that your movepoints are not changed while changing type of boat, but if changing to land (non-ship) mode, movepoints are reduced to the max for the hero (ie. when you move on port with valkyria and change into galleon leaving two movepoints unused, and next turn you find you would prefer to have her in land mode for some reason, she will have only 16 movepoints).

So the barb could have not only 6 steps left, but even more than 20.

It is not possible. And probably a good reason to reduce the movepoints despite it's different from changing to other ship.

I don't think the first thing is so big disadvantage, as far as I see the barbarian is the only serious problem (if your cities have at least some guards I haven't play any game yet where using this made a significant difference. It could have a big impact on the game, but there are surely much more such rules you might don't know or forget to consider and the result could be quite disastrous for you under certain circumstances. And once this happens to you, you will remember this rule for sure
It would be good if it was mentioned in the wiki. Btw., I would find useful if every part of the wiki had somewhere written the date of last changes and who made them - to see if it is outdated or not and to complain about mistakes

About the ai games, i think it would be very good if the player could chose which starting position to get, and maybe other things such as starting gold or starting stack. Only vs ai, and only an option for those that don't want random. Would be good both for new players and old.

I would like to see that possibility in any melee game. You can't test much about balance or tactics against AIs

[Negern]

I definitely used both technics and use the second one more than rarely
I think it's quite intuitive in the view of other rules for moving on water. If it would be otherwise, it would be confusing for me. The only thing which is a little strange for me is the fact that your movepoints are not changed while changing type of boat, but if changing to land (non-ship) mode, movepoints are reduced to the max for the hero (ie. when you move on port with valkyria and change into galleon leaving two movepoints unused, and next turn you find you would prefer to have her in land mode for some reason, she will have only 16 movepoints).

Well, why not. Maybe more people know about it than I believed. I just can't remember seeing anyone mention or use it. But maybe it's the FOW. I don't know, they just feel so secret.

I would like to see that possibility in any melee game. You can't test much about balance or tactics against AIs

Yes, your suggestion is better! Proposed it one time, but no one agreed. But now we're two at least!

[Chazar]

Note that the Warpedia has a dedicated section on maritime movement since a few weeks, where this is all well documented - well, at least I hoe that it is well-documented now. If I have missed anything in that section, then let me know.

PS: I also think that the rules are actually straightforward, if you think about it.

[KGB]

The only part that's not well known is the first thing Negern mentions about a hero being able to freely convert from boat to land mode without using up his movement. That allows the hero to potentially have 24 movement instead of their normal 14-16.

KGB

[SnotlinG]

When converting from boat to land mode, a hero will never keep more than his/her max movepoints.

[KGB]

When converting from boat to land mode, a hero will never keep more than his/her max movepoints.

That may be true. But as Negern pointed out, the hero can start the turn with 20+ moves from boat mode. Then the hero can move 5-6 moves to a port and still have another 14-16 movement left. So technically that hero got 20+ movement that turn.

What should really happen at conversion from boat to land mode for a hero is that the hero should get a percentage of movement based on what's been used. So if the hero was in a Galleon and went from 22 moves to 18 when they reached a port they should have used up 4/22 or 18%. So when that hero converts to land mode his movement should be reduced by 18% (so if base move was 16 hero would be left with 13 rather than 18 moves.

KGB

[tabanli]

I definitely used both technics and use the second one more than rarely

Yes he does. I was really surprised how his Barbarian caught my flying Ranger in our recent game. I wrote him "How can you possible reach there" now I know how.

[Negern]

When converting from boat to land mode, a hero will never keep more than his/her max movepoints.

I believe one easy and good solution would be that if a flier or stat in divine movement is with the hero when he steps onto the dock, a box pops up "Do you want your hero to change into land mode and have more steps left after disembarking?, Yes/No, More info, Check this box if you dont want this pop up again".

I think KGB's suggestion about % is very good.