Percentage

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Percentage

Postby Igor » Tue May 22, 2012 6:20 pm

Hello! I attached a file with the battle where I am not sure that percent of chanse to win is shown right.
Defender's demons, 5, were 54, that is more than most strong attacker's unit.
How can attacker have 95% chanse to win? Probably something wrong with this.
Does counting system work right?
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Re: Percentage

Postby piranha » Tue May 22, 2012 7:06 pm

If you look at the mouseover of the green dragon you can see that the attacker have a +20 anti air bonus. His dragons are 67 with 3 HP and all the other units are also +20 against all the defender units except devil and hero so I think those figures could be right.
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Re: Percentage

Postby Maze » Tue May 22, 2012 11:29 pm

I can "feel" the winning odds of the attacker, seen the attacker's bonuses: indeed anti-air, but also negate heroism from grand archon, 8% ambush for all (and 25+8 for the ghost), 3 hits for green dragons and catapult, DK's chaos (-12).

Can you please clarify the mouse-over and the bonuses on the left. Most of them I understand but not all:
Defender, left overview:
1. anti-wall = -2: comes from -10 (catapult) minus -8 from ???
2. morale = 2: +10 red dragon minus 8 negate aura (i.e. negate leadership) from attacker's devil
3. leadership = +9: 25 leadership from defender's horse lord minus 16 from attacker's grand archon
4. chaos = -12: from attacker's dreadknight

Attacker, left overview:
5. fear= -8: where does this come from?

Attacker, Green Dragon mouseover:
6. battle = 45: 40 + I guess 5 blessing
[7. leadership anti-air = +20: ok (from attacker's DK)] (between [] as only applicable against flyers, not counted in "13. total battle" below)
8. fear = -2: from defender's devil
9. negate aura (i.e. negate fear) = 8: from attacker's devil, only fear -2 will be taken away, 6 left unused
10. morale = +10: from attacker's red dragon
11. negate aura (i.e. negate morale) = 8: from defender's devil
{12. ambush = +8: from ghost}
13. total battle = 47: 45[+20]-2-(-2)+10-8= 47 [+20 anti-air] {and 8 ambush}

Recap:
- anti-wall: where does this -8 correction come from? does devil also negate this bonus?
- how does the devil's negate aura work? -8 to be split between morale and fear (if so, with what priority?) or -8 for each bonus (morale (2.), fear (9.) and if so, anti-wall (1.))
Unless I missed something, "-8 for each bonus, incl. anti-wall" is the only explanation I can come up with.
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Re: Percentage

Postby Maze » Tue May 22, 2012 11:50 pm

Back to the calculations of the case: ignoring the ambush, the green dragon with battle 67 has a hit chance of 63.4% against demon of 54 (hit chance of 36.6%), so for every hit by a demon, the green dragon hits twice. To kill 5 demons (ten hits), the green dragons will get hit 5 times (on average), leaving still one dragon alive with one hit and all demons killed. Even if the second green dragon is killed by the demon, that still leaves a 3-hit catapult and a 33% ambush (ghost) to kill the devil, and then the defender's red dragon will easily be taken down by attacker's anti-air.
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Re: Percentage

Postby KGB » Wed May 23, 2012 1:01 am

Maze,

Maze wrote:1. anti-wall = -2: comes from -10 (catapult) minus -8 from ???
Where does this -8 correction come from? does devil also negate this bonus?


I believe this is just a display error left over from older Beta's before the game went to a D100 system. In the original D20 system the Catapult was a -2 against city walls. It should be showing -10. The devil does not negate Catapult/Ram siege bonus.

Maze wrote:Attacker, left overview:
5. fear= -8: where does this come from?


Got to be a display error. There is no Fear -8 being applied to the attackers stack anywhere in the number calculations. There is only a Fear 2 from the Defender that is being Negated by the Attackers Devil. The Attackers final bonus should be showing as +2 Morale from the Dragon Morale-Devil Negate and Devil Negate-Fear.

Maze wrote:- how does the devil's negate aura work? -8 to be split between morale and fear (if so, with what priority?) or -8 for each bonus (morale (2.), fear (9.) and if so, anti-wall (1.))


It applies 8 to BOTH Fear and Morale but not Siege ( what you call anti-wall). So it's potentially 16 worth of Negate if you have a Fear +8 and Morale +8 in your stack. The Archon works the same way when facing a DK/Paladin Combo in that it can Negate up to 32 points (Grand) or 12 (Lesser).

The final numbers add correctly as you noted. The Defender stack fights at -1 (54 strength for 5 Demons). The Attacker Stack fights at +2 (47 for the Green Dragon). Then as Piranha notes there is a +20 Anti-Air added in when facing fliers so a Green Dragon would be fighting at 67 and your calculations on the hits explains why the Green Dragons devastate the Demons.

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Re: Percentage

Postby piranha » Wed May 23, 2012 5:12 am

The left side is matching some icons with the wrong bonus. It's just a display bug. I'll take look at the now when I have them in front of me.
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Re: Percentage

Postby LPhillips » Wed May 23, 2012 12:50 pm

Owned.
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Re: Percentage

Postby Igor » Wed May 23, 2012 2:37 pm

piranha wrote:If you look at the mouseover of the green dragon you can see that the attacker have a +20 anti air bonus. His dragons are 67 with 3 HP and all the other units are also +20 against all the defender units except devil and hero so I think those figures could be right.

When I saw total strength 47 I thought it include all the abilities. Such displaying doesn't let to define total strength rightly.
Should be better to show total strength 67.

Why leadership against air showed +20? Smursh told me that items gave +18. How was +2 else?
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Re: Percentage

Postby piranha » Wed May 23, 2012 3:59 pm

The reason its showing 47 is because not all enemies are flying enemies. So when there is a leadership bonus and a leadership antiair bonus it will display both on the mouse over and use the proper one depending on the enemy unit. In this case its only a leadership antiair bonus displayed so it will be used when figthting fliers and not when facing ground units. The value shown when mouseover is the ground based value but when you click start battle you should be able to see the small numbers changing bellow the units as they fight.

About the +20 that should have been +18 I'm going to see if there is a bug in the leadership antiair bonus.
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Re: Percentage

Postby Igor » Wed May 23, 2012 6:43 pm

Could leadership against air be shown not above but below total strength?
That will be more clear when a player see total strength and below it he could see leadership against air, as a correction to the total strength.
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