Here were some good thoughts by KGB:
KGB wrote:Piranha,
The trigger system is definitely interesting and you've added a lot to it since it first started. But it has the following drawbacks:
1) They can only be used in Scenario games which really limits their value.
2) The map maker must manually create every last trigger condition in the game. In other words, there is a LOT of work to do for the map maker in creating lots of triggers. As you add more trigger conditions, map makers must remember to go back and take advantage of them (new rewards, new options etc) which puts more work on the map makers to continually update the map.
3) The triggers are static. In other words always the same since they are fixed. This means they are exercises in memorization for players to know what's where.
4) The triggers can be completed by ANY unit. In other words, no heroes are required.
I think they are great for making custom scenarios where you want to do things like activate AI's, turn cities into City States etc. Cool stuff like that is exactly what triggers are for (Warlords IV used a mechanism much like this to do these same type of global things).
What we are looking for is a quest system that is hero based, non-static and where the game does all the work so that as you guys add new things they get automatically included in every game.
If you recall, Warlords 2 had a very basic quest system. A hero visited a temple and was able to obtain a quest. The drawbacks were: The quest might be nearby or might be on the far side of the map. There was only 1 quest per side (not per hero) at a time. You had to visit a temple to get one (which meant being near temples was huge). You could not abandon the quest other than killing the hero who had it. The reward was handed out immediately (no need to return to get your reward)
DLR improved this by changing it so you only needed to visit one of your cities to get a quest (no more temple dependency). You could select a quest level (easy, medium, hard) that was based in large part by how far away the quest was / how hard it was to complete. You could abandon quests (with a penalty of turns before you got a new one). Still, there was only 1 quest per side and the quests and rewards were not specific to the heroes in any way.
I'd suggest using some of what DLR did and improve on that over several versions of the game. What I'd like to see initially is:
1) A hero can get a quest in any friendly city (yours or teammate).
2) Can select easy or medium (using the DLR model of city wall level of 6 or better needed for medium quests).
3) One quest per side (later potentially 1 per hero).
4) When possible quest is hero specific.
5) Give the player a choice of 2 quests from the list below
Examples of Easy Quests:
1) Capture a city (within 15 map squares of the hero location in any direction. No more than 2 defenders in the city)
2) Capture a site (Within 15 map squares)
3) Kill a specific unit type based on hero (for example 1 Eagle by a Ranger. At least 1 unit of that type must be within 15 squares of the hero)
4) Capture a tower (within 15 map squares)
5) Bless at nearby temple (Temple within 15 squares. UL temple for Pally/Ranger/Assassin, Strength temple for Barb/DK, Move temple for Valk/HL might make for nice hero restrictions)
6) Search a L1 ruin (within 15 map squares)
7) Rebuild a city (within 15 map squares, max cost 600 gold)
In some cases it may be possible there is NO east quest of any kind in which case the hero can't get one.
Examples of Medium Quests:
1) Capture a city (12-35 map squares from hero location in any direction. At least 3+ defenders in the city)
2) Raze a city (same parameters as Capture a city)
3) Kill multiple enemy units (from any side, any type of units counts. The number should be between 7-15).
4) Search a L2 ruin (within 30 map squares) or L3 ruin (within 20 map squares)
5) Kill an enemy hero (within 20 map squares)
6) Capture a Tower (12-35 map squares. At least 4+ defenders in the tower)
The rewards get handed out immediately. No need to return to get them. Easy rewards should be very small like 100-300 gold, A single ally (like 1 Pegasi type thing. Use different units than the current allies from ruins/hero offers), 2 points of hero skills. Medium rewards would be better stuff like 300-700 gold, a good L1 item or a L2 item, 2-4 allies (4 if they are 2 turn units, 3 if they are 3 turn units or 2 if they are 4 turn units. So 2 Mammoths or 3 Pegasi or 4 Wizards type thing), 1 point of hero based skill (so Chaos for a DK, Leader for a Pally etc. This reward might only happen for a specific quest type such as raze city for a DK)
In addition to the reward, the hero gets XP for completing the quest. Maybe 250 XP for an easy quest and 750 XP for a medium quest.
This is an example of what we are talking about.
KGB
My personal favorite quests were tracking down a specific item that an enemy hero had in his/her possession, a true "Hard" quest that was a fun game of hunting!
