Question about hero bonus's

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Question about hero bonus's

Postby KGB » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:38 pm

I have a question about the new bonus's.

I took a Valkyrie because it says she is now the new Dreadknight (bonus when attacking). On the hero report screen I see Leadership Attack (with a Flag) and next to it Leadership attack (with a Sword) followed by a 4.

Now when I checked the combat results of my first battle, I saw I got a total of +4 combat. I was expecting something more along the lines of +8 (+4 from the Flag and +4 from the Sword).

Looking at the Paladin hero, I see a Leadership Attack (with a flag) and nothing else followed by a 3. Does that mean the Paladin is getting +3 or is he getting 0?

I'm similarly confused by the Dreadknight's Chaos power instead of Attack power and what the symbols and numbers represent.

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Re: Question about hero bonus's

Postby piranha » Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:37 am

The flag symbol is leadership. If combined with a sword its leadership attack, combined with a shield its leadership defend.

The valkyria have leadership attack only and she start with 4.

Paladin start with 3 leadership.

All heroes have different max limits for their bonus and get different amount of bonus for each point invested.

I see now that you can't see the max limit except when you buy the hero. I'll see if I can put the max limit in the hero inspect screen too.
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Re: Question about hero bonus's

Postby KGB » Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:49 pm

Piranha,

So the Paladin gets +3 all the time (attack/defend) and the Valkyrie gets +4 only when attacking? If so, that's a really bad deal for the Valkyrie making her a useless hero.

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Re: Question about hero bonus's

Postby piranha » Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:23 pm

Tha Valkyria get 4 attack leadership for 15 points. her max limit is attack leadership 16.

The Paladin gets 3 leadership for 20 points. His max limit is 15.

the valkyria can increase her speed to 20 at cost 5 points for 2 speed while the paladin can increase his to 18 for 5 points / 1 speed.

the paladin on the other hand starts with undead lore 9, can increase it to 33 and get 3 per upgrade while the others start with 4, get 2 per upgrade and their limit is 20.

The dice in the ruins have different sides, 12, 20, 33 so a paladin can search ruins with 100% win chance.

We might make some modifications if it turns out that one is clearly not as good or too good. But I think it will take a while to know that.
If there is one thing I learned from beta3 is that some people claim total imbalance that the dreadknight is best, while some say that the paladin or the valk is too good.
Seems that some people prefer to play with one style and some another style.
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Re: Question about hero bonus's

Postby KGB » Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:26 pm

Piranha,

Actually I think all the heroes are too weak right now. With the new system being out of D100 instead of D20, everything is multiplied by 5. So in Beta3, Paladin/Valkyrie heroes started with +5 Leadership (attack and defense) and the Dreadknight was +10/+5. Now the Paladin starts at +3/3 and the Valkyrie at +4/0. Relative to Beta3, heroes are now vastly inferior (meanwhile city walls continue to remain +5 so now a hero isn't equivalent to L1 wall bonus).

Without knowing the XP table (ie what's listed in the game right now seems wrong needing 1000 for L2 if capturing 1 city = 2 xp) and how many points per level (is it always 10 or does it increase at higher levels) I can't comment on the 15 points vs 20 point argument.

However, overall the Paladin gets 6 points (3/3) and the Valkyrie gets 4 (4/0). So you get 2/3 the points (4/6) for 75% the cost (15/20). That's a bad deal. Then on top of it is the need to be attacking to get use of your points (it's fine to increase individual move but unless it's increasing stack move, most of your best units aren't going to reach speed 18 never mind 20 so there is little reason to increase hero speed beyond 16). To balance them out it should be more on the order of 6 points of attack leadership even if you have to make it 20 points to get it. At least then she'll truly be a devastating attack hero as opposed to right now where she is a mere 1% better at L1 and 2% better after both increase their leadership. 1% and 2% aren't even going to be noticeable given the Dreadknight was 5% better in Beta3 and that was barely noticeable.

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Re: Question about hero bonus's

Postby Jeremy » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:08 am

My big fear in these games is that Hero units will be too powerful, so I'm glad to see that they might be a little underpowered.

+attack is worth considerably more than + on defense. So a 6/0 is a LOT more powerful than a 3/3. 4/0 may be worse, but 5/0 -- I'd be likely to think the 5/0 was better than the 3/3. I'm actually glad it's out of 100 now, so we can be more subtle in our balancing.
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Re: Question about hero bonus's

Postby ams16 » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:16 pm

Another question:
If you have two heroes in a stack, should you get both bonuses? I didn't. I attacked with a Valkyrie and a Paladin, and I only got +4.
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Re: Question about hero bonus's

Postby KGB » Thu Jul 28, 2011 4:52 pm

Ams16,

Bonus's should not stack. So what you got is correct.

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