Tundra Conflict [2.0] is submitted for review.

[LPhillips]

Really looks good, Hatch. This is the sort of loving craftwork in a map that is the best of what the community puts forward.

Now we just need some extraneous decoration tiles to make things like this more organic. I don't know how difficult it is to edit tile sets in the format needed for the game, but it would be really awesome if we could design tiles and multitiles in the correct palette to be submitted for approval. I'd love to add ruined cities and guardhouses, old broken down towers, abandoned farmhouses with the roof collapsed by snow, etc.

What do you think?

[hatchfactory]

I am aware of what is involved to make or enhance a game tileset and I totally agree that more graphics would make this (Warbarons) project take off. I'm sure they already have some new artwork being worked on, and lots in the plan. I do see the problems the developers have though in involving the community.

Mainly consistency and vision. When Warbarons was in beta 1, any contributions would have most likely been helpful. But now, after some evolution, contributions would require sifting through and even then if talent is found you have the problem of making things look seamless with a consistent style.

That said, Piranha is aware that I would provide any help I could (wall tilesets, an alternate unit tileset, splashscreens) , and donate art "IF" it would fit into their vision of where they want to take Warbarons. If a professional image is to be maintained, any art (community or otherwise) would have to be directed closely by the developers. (remembering the delay of release of 0.8)

[LPhillips]

If a professional image is to be maintained, any art (community or otherwise) would have to be directed closely by the developers. (remembering the delay of release of 0.8)

Absolutely. Every submission would have to be vetted before approval. I would suspect the vast majority to be rejected or simply returned to the drawing board. There is a small question of whether this would breed any bad blood among the community/contributors. The other question is whether Piranha/Snotling have any desire to take on the headache of managing submissions. I'd put forward the concept of a board of 2-5 players who approve or reject up front, and then forward the approved images to Piranha/Snotling for the real test. This would leave the real decision in their hands without the headache of managing a flood of sub-par submissions.

Maybe it would be fine, as long as that was all clearly established up front.

[hatchfactory]

@LPhillips - I was thinking on your idea of wall tiles, made me remember a tile-set I made from a roguelike project I was working on, drawn at the same angle and similar lighting direction (flipped) as Daniel Cooks ridge tile-set. The art was canned after deciding I wanted to go another direction. The tile-set no longer has a use.
Originally for a dungeon, just a little tweaking, scaling to 64x64 on a grid and I came up with mock-up for conceptual design. It could probably use the same code as the ridge, and I would cull the un-needed tiles like stairs, gates, treasure boxes, torch etc.

Food for thought if you succeed in getting Piranha and SnotlinG to buy into your wall idea.

[LPhillips]

Neat! Thanks Hatch!

I'm thinking of something along that line, with a 1-tile non-fortified postern as shown and 2-tile fortified gatehouse (upgradable, defensible by 2 stacks). Looking at your example, I think the High Wall would need to be 2 tiles thick to give a proper feeling of proportion.

Now we have an idea of how it might look in context
This makes me wonder if there might also be tiles for ruined/damaged sections of wall. Damaged high wall allows fliers to pass at cost 4, ruined high wall allows walkers at cost 6. Damaged low wall allows walkers at cost 6, ruined at normal cost. No word yet on what Snotling and Piranha think of the concept, though it hasn't been put in the Suggestions forum.

Also, Roguelikes ftw

[piranha]

Hatch:
Nice wall you created. With the sand terrain and that wall I come to think of dune 2 if you ever played that? Great game at its time.

If you want to draw some and you are okay with having to change things based on feedback to fit with the current look that is very welcome. We can give it a try. For units I think it will be hard to draw them in the same style as we have (at least the artists I've asked to do that had their own look) But it is probably easier with terrain, especially extra tiles to the current tile sets.

Back to the idea of a wall terrain:
What should a wall do other than look good and stop land units? Seems strange that a wall would block flying units?

[KGB]

Indeed some great graphics there. Reminds me of all the nice work you did in Warlords2 / BattleCry modding.

Back to the idea of a wall terrain:
What should a wall do other than look good and stop land units? Seems strange that a wall would block flying units?

I think the idea was something you've mentioned before. Making a dungeon tile set. The idea being that the entire map would be underground and therefore the walls represented impassible terrain for fliers since there would be a roof. Just need some dungeon ground tiles, roads through that tile and shores (for underground rivers/lakes) and it would be all set.

Like you, I don't see how walls outdoors presents much of a barrier to fliers since no wall (other than the one in GRR Martins - A Song of Ice and Fire) is high enough for fliers to even notice given they fly over hills and mountains.

KGB

[hatchfactory]

Indeed some great graphics there. Reminds me of all the nice work you did in Warlords2 / BattleCry modding.

I think it was "AHatch" Andy Hatch @ Warlordsforever who did the modding, not I, although we both like modding, map making and might be related distantly I can't take credit for his work.

Hatch:
Nice wall you created. With the sand terrain and that wall I come to think of dune 2 if you ever played that? Great game at its time.

Yes, i fact I still have it running under DOSbox

[KGB]

HatchFactory,

Your right I did confuse the two of you. I thought you were one and the same

KGB

[LPhillips]

The wall serves 2 purposes.

1) It's a good map terrain feature to give us some variety when making our maps look more realistic and intriguing.
2) We need a terrain that stops everything, especially fliers. This is where High Wall comes in. It has to look massive, thus the suggestion for 2 tile width. It should not be used commonly in maps, but we do need it. None of us want to layer maps with alternate lines of lava and mountains/water/ridges to create the barrier. We need something that looks good, no matter how much of a fantasy stretch it may be to construct a 5km high wall

KGB, dungeon tile sets are a different matter. None of this is discussing subterranean tilesets.

I seem to remember reading that Piranha and Snotling have plans for a dungeon tile set anyway, so there's no need to push that one.